MeetFighters News

Faceless Member Verification

Hello everyone,

A few days ago we introduced Member Verification, a new site feature designed to address a dark aspect of social sites: fake profiles. I would like to thank everyone who already verified themselves and also those who commented on this new feature. Most comments critical of verification boiled down to two camps: those who thought it was superfluous to their many past opponents and recommendations and those who were concerned about posting a public face photo. I would like to address these concerns now.

Privacy concerns

I would like to thank those who expressed their privacy concerns. I admit I hadn't thought this through in sufficient depth and my initial design didn't accommodate verification without a public face photo. I simply couldn't think up a faceless procedure. I am happy to announce that I gave the matter further thought, and came up with a process that protects your privacy while still allowing our site supporters verify your account reliably.

[IMAGE:https://www.meetfighters.com/Content/Images/verification_faceless.png]

The faceless verification process works with two versions of a photo: a version where the face is cropped or blurred, to be placed in the public profile, and a private version of the unedited photo. The private version will show your face, but it will only be available to the supporters handling your verification and can be deleted once verification is complete. A full explanation of the process is available on the Member Verification page. The verification page walks you through the process, I tried to make it as easy and intuitive as I could. (The simple face photo validation is also still available.)

It is my hope that this modification of the process alleviates your privacy concerns. I would also like to point out that verification is voluntary. Big thanks to GrappleViking for being the first member to complete this form of validation.

The superfluous nature of verification on established profiles

Another point that was raised by some was that, once a person has a high number of past opponents and recommendations, getting verified seems unnecessary. Some even seemed to take umbrage at the thought of verifying their profile, as if this new feature was somehow a challenge to the validity of their profile. I assure you that is not the case and I would like to explain why you should still verify your profile and how this feature is still a blessing to you.

You might feel that the benefit to you is minimal, because your profile already has good reviews. Sometimes you just need to be a bit generous and look beyond your immediate interest. Maybe the benefit of verifying your profile is not to you directly, but to the site at large. (You know, the very site that helped you find all those past opponents and hosts all your great reviews.) You see, ideally, if every real profile gets Verified, the fakes would have no crowd to hide in. This is the key to how this is supposed to work. Verification is like vaccination: it works best if every person is getting their shots.

So, indirectly though, you are benefiting greatly from verification. Complaining about fakes is a popular attraction. It's true, they are a problem on any social site. They can waste people's times (and occasionally money) and erode trust. Verifying your profile is a small task that takes you maybe 5 minutes; by doing so you make the site a little better and less attractive to fakes. So please think before you post something that would discourage others from doing something that would make the site better.

Final small request

I'm extending an invitation to everyone to participate in the discussion. I would like to ask you to limit your participation to making a point once, though. Please, even if you feel that your point is particularly important and you are feeling very strongly about making it, do not post it repeatedly.

Thank you!

In other news...

The message search function is complete. I would like to thank munichsubfight for originally submitting the feature request. Due to the database-intensive nature of the operation, for now it is only available to donating members. I will experiment some more and see if it is viable to make this feature available to everybody.

What comes next is up to you, visit the Idea Box and vote for your favorite features!

– Admin out

Translate
Last edited on 2/19/2017 4:04 PM by Admin
PermaLink

Comments

64

Admin

1/17/2017 11:51 AM

That is what recommendations are all about. Verification is a different mechanism. I have just carefully explained how verification is complementary to recommendations and is not superfluous.

Translate

nightstranger (56)

1/17/2017 5:34 PM

(In reply to this)

Just want to start by expressing my appreciation for the site and your efforts. I think verification is a good idea and additional personal security. I will use it as the tool it is intended and that is to be able to feel comfortable with newer wrestlers who may not have previous matches.

I think the push back from members with extensive past opponents and recommendations comes from a feeling that they have worked to build complete profiles and now to have this designation they have to jump through an additional hoop. I don't know if there is a way to grandfather people who at the end of 2016 had a certain number of past opponents and or recommendations.

Either way, I'm cool.

Translate

D Waren (24)

1/17/2017 9:32 PM

(In reply to this)

Sorry - it is superfluous - of course it is - no one gets a lot of recommendations without being "genuine".... a better solution to this would have been to ENCOURAGE new members - without recommendations to get verified - this would allow them to get the action they wanted....

Again - it is superfluous - doesn't mean it is not worthwhile - but I am verified by the men I have worked with....

Cheers!

Translate

TX bull (21 )

1/17/2017 11:31 PM

(In reply to this)

I agree on both points

Translate

Ben skull stephens (185)

1/17/2017 9:55 PM

(In reply to this)

I always thought recommendations were a way of letting guys know who is genuine

Translate

Andy Bluebear (4)

1/17/2017 11:57 AM

Is there a way to not have photos marked as Private show up in Photo Peer Review?

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 12:04 PM

(In reply to this)

That is already the case. Private photos do not go through peer review.

Translate

Andy Bluebear (4)

1/17/2017 12:06 PM

(In reply to this)

But they can still be seen (and copied/downloaded) in the Photo Peer Review section...even you can't identify who the person is, it would be nicer if private photos didn't show up at all.

Translate

anakron (41)

1/17/2017 11:58 AM

I really don't like this focus on hunting down "fakers".
I think the means you recently introduced were already sufficient enough. The ratio of days on the site vs. past opponents is all I need to look at.
And while I'm on this site to setup "real" matches, I understand people being on the site just because the subject is of interest, but in a more "virtual" way.
I have a really bad feeling about this focus of having to "come out", bad associations come to my mind about the process implemented, especially the initial version of it.
Again, I really think it is going too far, and the means recently put into a prominent place on top of each persons profile, are already enough.

Translate

drahtman (28)

1/17/2017 9:48 PM

(In reply to this)

Thank you very much for your statement. Thats exactly what I think about it as well.

Translate

Mark uk (278)

1/17/2017 12:01 PM

I think it's a good system and will get mine done this weekend. However, I do sympathise with those that are real but maybe far more discreet. Ironbull has a good point that might work as long as it not one guy with no meets or recommendations verifying another.
Is there a time limit on those that don't comply or have ever change there profile?

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 12:08 PM

(In reply to this)

This is covered in the post, but let me repeat: member verification is not mandatory. I would love it if everyone got verified, but it is not required.

I made the process as discreet as I could without compromising its power.

Translate

Ben skull stephens (185)

1/17/2017 12:02 PM

to be honest I'm not sure how you do the validation ive tried twice and failed

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 12:06 PM

(In reply to this)

I have followed up on your support request. Please read my response and ask any followup questions that you might have.
Thank you.

Translate

ImtiazAli (198)

1/17/2017 12:10 PM

What if a fake profile verifies a fake profile?
The same way, a fake profile recomends a fake profile?

With the the Admin's idea, we know at least, that both of those profile's are ran by people they show they are.

Prehaps, just for now, it's probably best to test out this beta as it is... To see if users even bother to go ahead.

Translate

Ironbull (94)

1/17/2017 4:41 PM

(In reply to this)

I guess. Although I am taken aback by how resistant some of the comments are. At worst it can surely do no harm to try

Translate

brightonguy (21)

1/17/2017 12:11 PM

What about issues of hacking and privacy.
Anyone with any form of public profile or particular jobs must hope the site doesn't get hacked, connecting their face with their profile name.

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 12:15 PM

(In reply to this)

This is also covered both in this news post AND the Member verification page, but I will repeat: the private photo showing your face can be removed after verification.

I beg everyone: please read before you comment.

And I realize that just because something never happened in the past is no guarantee for it not happening ever in the future, but: MeetFighters has never been hacked.

Translate

MMTwister (23)

1/17/2017 12:15 PM

Firstly, I think it's a great idea for genuine members who haven't had matches yet but want to validate themselves.

The only reason I haven't yet verified myself was because i think it requests a shirtless photograph and though I'm comfortable displaying a face photo, personally I'd rather not show a shirtless picture. Is there a way around this or have I misunderstood the criteria?

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 12:16 PM

(In reply to this)

Yes, we are accepting clothed photos. The requirement for shirtless is superfluous and I am strongly considering dropping it entirely.

Translate

MMTwister (23)

1/17/2017 12:18 PM

(In reply to this)

Thanks for confirming this. And as always, thanks for the excellent service and support you provide.

Translate

bodycontactau (1)

1/17/2017 12:20 PM

It's another piece of information people can review when assessing a profile.....
No verification is not an automatic red flag, verification doesn't completely prove they are genuine, decent people but it can help.....

Translate

gpau1900 (5 )

1/17/2017 12:45 PM

Just want to say thank you for listening to our constructive criticism on this. I love that this site is always getting better ;)

Translate

PhoenixBigBear (19 )

1/17/2017 12:52 PM

Generally I think the verification process is a good idea. I subscribe to the view that there should be a faceless PUBLIC pic to protect privacy. Good move!
Now, I need your help: I take my photos using a mirror so the alphanumeric code I'm holding will appear backwards. Don't have anything more sophisticated or webcam & there's nobody around to take the photo for me.
Can I still submit the photo with the backward letters? Can you reverse the image when you get it? Is there another way I can do this?

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 1:02 PM

(In reply to this)

Our highly trained team of support specialists have all been taking courses in reading backward. Nobody gets on the team without passing that exam. :)

Translate

PhoenixBigBear (19 )

1/17/2017 1:08 PM

(In reply to this)

Wow! You guys are truly inspiring!!! OK I'll send you my backwards pic. I live in Arizona, and backward is very chic here ;)
But can they read backwards while standing on their heads??! That's the real test, huh?!!!
Thanks!

Translate

Spruceman (55 )

1/17/2017 3:55 PM

(In reply to this)

Thank you for this info. Appears to solve my concern. Will try to make the characters distinct so they are easy to read backwards.

Translate

NaturalBrute (0)

1/17/2017 1:03 PM

Verification pics are never shown in public in any site because it can be stolen, modified and used in other sites...

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 4:24 PM

(In reply to this)

This is also why we generate a code that is tied to account and time.

Translate

Wrestle4Fun (106)

1/17/2017 1:05 PM

Sorry but for the first time, I don't like at all this focus. In the past I was ok for all and be grateful for your huge work. And didn't say enough again and again a great thanx
But there, i can't follow u.
I think it's going too far. It's typically a bad idea that u can find on another site.
Sorry again but without me. 😟😟

Translate

Spruceman (55 )

1/17/2017 1:20 PM

Can the one-hour window be changed to two hours? Too narrow for me to get it don on this computer. I wonder why the narrow "launch window," unless it's intended to reduce the ability of users to "Photoshop[tm]" changes in one's appearance.

Translate

Admin

1/17/2017 3:45 PM

(In reply to this)

That's exactly the reason. If you have a webcam, phone or similar device, those could be used for verification.

Translate

StrikeFighter (61 )

1/17/2017 2:01 PM

I think the adapted verification process (allowing faceless verification) will be a benefit to the site.

I have another suggestion. How about making verification photos expire after one year? That would inspire serious members to post new, up-to-date profile pics at least once a year.

Translate

Bone saw (112)

1/17/2017 2:32 PM

I applaud your interest and motivation in working so hard to keep this site as legit as possible, but I feel this verification process is a huge wast of time and effort. The current checks/safeguards in place are more than adequate to allow members to make a determination on the validity of a prospective opponent's profile. This enhanced level of verification offers very little in added value to identifying a fake profile. I see two enhancements. First it does allow a new member instant verification of his photo, however it does nothing to assure this member will actually show up and wrestle. I will still rely on past opponents verification, and give a new member who has only been on the site for a few months the benefit of the doubt if he has not yet received any past opponent verification. Second it does make sure members keep their profile pics current, however again, i am more than willing to rely on current recommendations from past opponents to verify a prospective new opponent.

I would also like to point out that i believe there are two types of so called fake profiles. The first are the guys who have no problem posting current photos of themselves, but have no intention of ever meeting someone in person and actually wrestling. They somehow have their wrestling needs satisfied by simply exchanging messages and setting up matches they never intend on showing up for. This verification process actually validates these fakes.
The second group are guys who create totally fake profiles.....with fake photos. This does eliminate this group, but again, the fact they never will have a single past opponent even after years on the site is more than enough verification for me.

I will not be participating in the new process......I will let my past opponent list speak for me.

Translate

Crushwrestler (7)

1/17/2017 2:52 PM

Thank you for addressing the problem with a creative solution. With that said, I am likely to depend more on the recommendations of past opponents. While verification is simple (five minutes as you say), that also makes it simple enough to fake with decent photoshop skills. Thank you for addressing the privacy concerns.

Translate

GrappleViking (111 )

1/17/2017 2:56 PM

I think this feature is amazing, and I've gotta publicly compliment the Admin team for their incredibly fast response time!
I was expecting this faceless member verification to take weeks from when I questioned wether it was possible or not, but just a day later it's here...
Once again, very professional. Well done!

Translate

Sean MacGowan (10 )

1/17/2017 3:20 PM

Just want to say thanks for being responsive to concerns about privacy - truly impressive how progress can be made when things are approached with a community rather than a company (or a CYA) mindset. Thanks to the admins and all who contributed to this useful feature and its rapid adjustment to meet the needs of all members.

Translate

GrappleViking (111 )

1/17/2017 3:37 PM

(In reply to this)

This comment *clapping*

Translate

GrappleViking (111 )

1/17/2017 4:44 PM

I think the verification process helps you to get that first meet, when you have 0 past opponents, and 0 recommendations. After that, it's more about the recommendations, as you say. However, I don't see why a combination of the two would be negative??

Translate

bigdog63 (21)

1/17/2017 5:23 PM

If u have 10 people say u are real I don't see the need for some thing else just seems redundant

Translate

wetspeedos (30)

1/17/2017 5:25 PM

For me, the site has hitherto not been a problem and I have not met any time wasters or fake profiles...........Even if I had...........it's not a big issue as every site has some................Personally I don't see any significant benefit for me to verify anything at this stage of my membership considering I have donated year on year for quite a few years.............Would I do that if I was a fake?............I don't think so!

Translate

Yngrasslr00 (137)

1/17/2017 5:39 PM

I like the option of verification, and also like seeing the quick responsiveness of the admin. Even more so because it was a suggestion I made on the last thread lol so kinda awesome to see an idea shared by me and others put into usable action, without too much compromise. As I responded to someone on the last thread, you can't please everyone, but I am with the admin when he states it will make the site better, phish out these fake cats, and not have people wasting time (or money in some cases). And it's EXTRA beneficial for the new folks on here to help get their first match. I see it as a win-win, at least for now until something horrendous happens lol. Thanks for all the hard work you put into this site for us man! Truly appreciated!

Translate

GrappleViking (111 )

1/17/2017 5:57 PM

(In reply to this)

I'm 100% with you Yngrasslr00!

Translate

sfslammer (26)

1/17/2017 6:13 PM

There are several other, more credible ways to verify a user, email address, "real" person: verification codes through text messages, email verification, etc. Forcing someone to spend time holding up a card, and taking a picture is the first time I've heard of this - unless someone is being admitted into a prison.

Thank you for making this optional. If people don't think I'm "real" then they don't need to contact me.

Translate

Spruceman (55 )

1/17/2017 6:19 PM

It's an added feature; free of charge. If it results in my finding a few as one additional guy to wrestle (things have been fallow lately) or weeds out one fake/flake (not so few lately), it will be well worth the effort of giving it a try within a few days.

Appreciate the hard work done by the powers to be here to continue making this a great site

Translate

Wrestler Berlin (20)

1/17/2017 6:29 PM

May be we should accept users who don't want to post face pictures due to privacy reasons. In those days, privacy in combination with the principle of data avoidance and minimisation is very important.

Translate

Tom 049 (21)

1/17/2017 7:49 PM

To make it short:
This function is complete nonsense.
No photo with face - for no one.

Translate

GrappleViking (111 )

1/17/2017 8:18 PM

(In reply to this)

Care to elaborate?

Translate

Aussboxa (9)

1/17/2017 9:53 PM

Interesting focus for site.

Translate

Ben skull stephens (185)

1/17/2017 9:54 PM

I can vouch for ya ed

Translate

In this corner (7)

1/17/2017 9:55 PM

It seems like a lot to go through the site in my opinion all ready has enough protections

Translate

Landshark (4)

1/18/2017 12:13 AM

The new option means the photo on the site is really the phone of the member. That's nice but the real concern should be whether a member is a scammer or a pervert. With Internet cafes someone could get "verified" without disclosing their name or actual location. Since many people, especially young vulnerable guys, won't read the fine print, I think you shouldn't use the word Verified." A more accurate term would be "photo matches user." Isn't that all being verified means?

Translate

Admin

1/18/2017 3:26 PM

(In reply to this)

Verifying the photo means more than verifying nothing. And at least that part we CAN verify.

Translate

punchpignyc (11 )

1/18/2017 12:17 AM

hey - minor point compared to a lot of the above, but - I really dislike the pic I took (which however accepted) for the verification thing. Can I replace it with another?

Translate

Animal KingDom (19 )

1/18/2017 1:23 AM

"Sometimes you just need to be a bit generous and look beyond your immediate interest. Maybe the benefit of verifying your profile is not to you directly, but to the site at large. (You know, the very site that helped you find all those past opponents and hosts all your great reviews.) "

Although perhaps not the conscious intent, the above quote from Admin. could be perceived as patronizing, judgmental, and an attempt to manipulate by shaming. Which might be why some react as offended. Everyone is an assumed adult here, we'll all figure it out. Otherwise it will be like herding cats. ;)

Translate

cripplerUSA (10 )

1/18/2017 1:33 AM

A couple of things....if I do this (and I'm not real keen on this), I have to take some fresh pictures. I too, would like to thank the guy who thought of this.....NOT. Sorry, I know know I have to do this to stay on the site, but I'm not in favor of this. I know, I know, just do this and move on....well, I've been on this site for quite a long time and never had a problem (this is why I like this site). Maybe the new comers should have to adhere to this and members who haven't been here so long, but the ones that have been here....they should draw the pass..

Translate

munichsubfight (157)

1/18/2017 1:51 AM

(In reply to this)

As Admin has stated repeatedly: this whole process is optional!
And while Admin sure would like it if many guys would use his newest creation, he himself states repeatedly that all this is optional.

And he even more would like his thirteenthousand-and-some cats to be herded (thanks Biff Kerpow for that image in my head;-) to read how the process works before commenting. And read that is is optional... Do I repeat myself? Well, Admin does so, so I can´t be that wrong be stating repeatedly that it is optional;-), so please read before commenting...

[Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Admin, I don´t even agree 100% with Admin in every detail, but here I just want to save him a couple of keystrokes to repeat himself repeatedly... He will have enough to do to herd all those 13k+ cats;-]

Translate

cripplerUSA (10 )

1/18/2017 1:59 AM

(In reply to this)

I got it.....optional....I missed it. I apologize for missing this optional thing. Hope you never "miss" anything here.

Translate

Admin

1/18/2017 3:19 PM

Oh, I can answer this one. It is because of the dozens of times that a trusted member created a secondary fake account for themselves.

Also, I asked very nicely to not to push agendas repeatedly. Very, very nicely. I'm not sure how to ask any nicer, but I do know how to delete comments. So that is what I will do from now on.

Translate

munichsubfight (157)

1/18/2017 3:37 PM

(In reply to this)

Gosh... I didn´t even think about those when I collected my half-a-dozen possible faker semantics...
I think that´s because from earlier days I remember those as "sock puppets", not as "fakers"... And by the way, that "sock puppet" indicator was just cool designed.

Thanks for shedding some light on what the verification actually is about!

Under these circumstances I can understand how the whole process helps:
As an already established member I can´t use my own photo to verify my sock puppet account because the pictures would be too similar and sooner or later it would become clear that both profiles are the same guy.

Translate

Landshark (4)

1/18/2017 5:22 PM

I don't object to another layer of protection. It would be especially meaningful to verify that someone's pic isn't faked if they have had no matches. Thank you for making verification optional. But making it optional should include some protection for those who exercise the option to not pose for a new pic. Please consider putting a "What does Verified mean?" link under the Verified icon on profiles. Have the link explain that if a profile is not verified, that doesn't mean it's unreliable, it means a user has exercised his right to not submit a face picture to the site. Explain that most people who post recommendations don't mind if you message them and ask some questions about a former opponent. I know your goal is to reduce the chances of having a bad experience and that's great. Isn't exchanging messages with people who actually know the person you are interested in meeting the best way of learning something about him? This is an opportunity to encourage people to take advantage of that.

Translate

Wrestler Berlin (20)

1/18/2017 7:33 PM

I am just wondering whether the Admin will complete the process to acquire a "Faceless Memeber Verification" for his account too ;)

Translate

Rowdy Submission (88)

1/19/2017 2:48 PM

+1 that the terminology is a problem and should be changed. This new feature aims only to prove that a certain pic is accurate and newish, not that a User is more likely to show up. Those without a qualified pic are not less likely to be "verified wrestlers".

Translate

Spruceman (55 )

5/23/2018 2:28 PM

I like the verification thing. Every site has its share of flakes and fakes, who post either ancient or stolen pics. Tho it's less of a problem on this site, it still happens Sometime when a guy shows up, I wonder if I had been travelling near light speed for a few days my time between chatting and meeting only to return to Earth and see someone has aged 20 years :) At my age, every thing to help prove I'm real and tougher than ever in my life, is a Godsend. Profile of the day would help a lot; but the sheer random odds of that in a given year is only 365 or 366 out of 16,000 plus members. If it would help reduce the need for a guy my age to be signed in and hunting almost 100 hours per opponent found (not the site's fault that guys can't believe I still thrive at seventy-five), I'd gladly send in a DNA sample and fingerprint, once convinced of security . Great job, guys.

Translate