Following on from the discussions here and elsewhere in relation to younger people and wrestling; I'd like to announce the first session of wrestling and coaching aimed at the younger element. The 'younger element' are guys defined as being under 35. Arbitrary? Of course but you have to draw the line somewhere - though I suppose if you were 36 and had a great body the younger guys would not object!!!
As already announced on the SPEEDO-WRESTLERS website the first meeting date will be 12 till 3PM SATURDAY, JANUARY 16th. Coaching will be at the basic, beginner level onwards and the be based developing skills in both pinfall and submission wrestling.
There is a cost for this monthly coaching and wrestling and it is only £10 per session.
As time goes on and the numbers attending increase in size then we'll make the sessions fortnightly and then weekly. However this really depends on the younger element grabbing hold of this new wrestling club meeting and running with it.
There is no expectation of participants wearing speedos as I'm given to believe that the younger guys don't like that but prefer to wear taliban shorts instead. Whatever! It does not matter as it is more important that guys turn up than what they wear. So wear whatever gear you feel makes you more comfortable but just give your initial, at least, support to this and we'll see how it goes.
On the same evening from 7 till 10PM there is a Nudist Wrestling & Coaching Meeting but that is not related to the previous session and is totally separate.
To my horror its just dawned on me that I'm now in the "older" age bracket! - but that aside having wrestled since I was 17 on and off there are a couple of things that I feel got in the way.
I was never put off by wrestling with "older blokes" many of whom I found great company and cracking wrestlers & shags but I had to fancy them for the sex. The general feeling I had when meeting someone was that sex was taken for granted and it was the wrestling style that was up for negotiation.
A group of 20 years olds in the room together isn't going to click and have an enjoyable session just because they are younger.
It is daunting to strip off with a guy within 2 minutes of meeting them and even more so with a group who all seem to know each other.
When you arrange to meet up with a bloke for the first time being honest is the key - if the more experienced bloke just wants to show off his 30+ years of training the match ends up one one sided and I used to find it dull, painful and demoralising.
So to answer the original post - be clear what you are after and what you expect, and do the totally un-gay and un-London thing of dropping a message after the bout to say thank you. Perhaps the odd "introduction session" with a couple of sensible friendly blokes who can give a safe demonstration/ introduction may work?
Anyway after 18 months off with a back injury I'm probably a newbie again myself!
I know we always had a 'house rule' that it was speedos that the wrestlers should wear. However this has been relaxed for a little while now and you are free to wear whatever you want including singlets.
To be honest it is much more important that guys turn up than that we worry about what they wear. I always do the coaching with myself in speedos or brief swimtrunks anyway regardless. That is just me and my particular gear fetish though!!!
So just come along with whatever gear you want to wear. The matroom area is very warm with our heaters running so you might find the gear usually worn in mainstream martial arts clubs - the sweatpants and hoodie tracksuits covering oversized taliban shorts a bit uncomfortable.
as a new member, it is nice to see that this kind of thought is going into the site... I know of Iain's set up and it looks good.. if you want to wrestle in speedos... I prefer singlets as am fussy about wrestling sweaty people I may not be attracted too.. but that's just me I guess... Last I heard Iain was putting in showers, and ideally all wrestlers should shower before and after matches. I have a garage converted into a mat room, and hope to find guys to wrestle here in central London by Tower bridge..
Hey, As a youngish wrestler(30) now, but have been since I was 19, I have to say that economics and apprehension are the real reasons why. Economics being that travelling around to meet in hotels and places not necessarily close by / etc is not cheap as I did this for some time in the past so going to Iain's place is the perfect opportunity for many young wrestlers..and I highly recommend Iain's coaching techniques and encouragament. I think personally that the uncertainty over sexual overtones is what causes the most problem....if you get a group of young wrestlers who are all comfortable and sexually charged then great...that rarely happens..and many are put off by older guys who they feel..sex is expected and you cant just wrestle. On this front, younger guys have to be a bit more assertive and if they aren't interested..then say so...rather than perhaps never going again/and realising a good wrestle can occur without the expected sex afterwards if not desired......fortunately for me i like older fit muscled wrestlers..and with no age barrier really as long as in shape..but I think that's the nub of the reason why...young guys also perhaps are still sorting out their sexuality...in early 20's etc and not certain of their own feelings, so in your face gay advances are not always welcome....and I know how some older guys dont sometimes know how to say..ok..and move on..so it needs commnication from both sides...being open and honest.
dirtyfighters point about the make up of sites like this holds true though. Out of curiosity I ran a search against 18-30 vs 31+ and at first glance there looks to be around nearing 10x as many members over 30. Now you could always narrow those search fields over but using the groupings discussed on here thats big difference. Another thing which would be interesting to me and maybe some of you would to see what the styles of grappling these groups are primarily interested in. This is an interesting thread guys, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
... however getting them to participate in group events has always been difficult.
The age group attending our sessions is around the 40+ mark. Yesterday I was 54 and celebrated it by doing a club wrestling session (I'm a bit of an obsessive when it comes to wrestling). The oldest guy there was 57 and I think the youngest was late 30's.
It may well be that it takes younger gay guys longer to grow up and have enough focus to join gay fighting clubs. They all seem to be on the commercial scene getting plastered on drugs and alcohol.
We have had group coaching and wrestling sessions where younger guys have attended. They all tend to want sex at the end of it though. While this does happen it only happens occasionally depending on the personal dynamics at each session.
The last time we had a large number of young guys attending the session ended in a total orgy - but only after the older guys had left. To be honest though, most of our weekly sessions are totally sex-less other than the feel of the general eroticism of the wrestling itself.
I have tried to set up a training session just for younger guys in order for them to train and wrestle among their peers. The take up was zero in the end so I abandoned the idea. However I am individually coaching a fair number of younger guys and they tell me that they are occasionally meeting guys from the various wrestling websites.
Younger guys getting into grappling or just martial arts are probably starting with the mainstream 'straight' fighting clubs where they will for the most part get excellent coaching. They then usually start making contacts in the gay undeground fighting community if they don't make them in their mainstream club.
However, for guys who want to wrestle in a totally gay/bi environment we are building a terrific wrestling club here in London. To be perfectly frank if new guys are coming into gay wrestling then they really should make a beeline straight to SPEEDO-WRESTLERS.
There are no other gay/bi based wrestling clubs in London which provide the kind of coaching we do and the quality matspace either. It is also for free so students on a budget only need to pay travel costs.
Another very simple point that hasn't been made here yet is that most younger guys have much less money to spend on 'frivolous' trips to wrestling events. You have to consider that the extra cost involved for those who don't live close to the event (travel, accommodation) could be prohibitive for potential younger participants. So the fact that more younger people don't participate might only partly have to do with their perceived reluctance. I think a lot of it has to do with simple economics, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
Two suggestions: organise events in big population centres (London probably being one of the best choices) and try to keep the event limited to one day only so people only have to stay overnight once, or not at all. You might also consider checking the calendar for university holidays!
"Age discrimination", if it really is that rather than just a person exercising a personal preference, can be justified on various grounds, not least in sport and when socialising. I suspect many younger grapplers just take longer to get into this or are content finding their milieu. We probably all think "jings, I wish I had started grappling sooner" but you can only walk so far in another man's shoes..he needs to take those first steps himself. I actually find some younger men enjoy going up against a sane,older, more experienced opponent. For the others, live and let live. Though, for the prima donnas, I'm reminded that "just cos you're young, don't mean your gorgeous" -).
I would love to take part in an event but am really short of time so would not be able to help organise it. I'm 27 and am fairly new to the fighting scene so would love some experience fighting guys my own age before moving onto other age groups too.
Hence the reason for asking a younger guy to help with the organising of such an event The whole reason for starting this article was that a couple of the younger fighters had expressed an interest in coming along to one of the events but would have preferred an event that was for there age only. At that point i was still unsure if that comes under age dicrimination but when i suggested to them that they should have a go at organising there own event then i was met by some reluctancy to do so. If the guys want to have stake matches that is entirely up to themselves to make it in their rules of engagement. If someone does not wish stakes included then their wish should be respected at all times. Please keep the comments coming guy's and hopefully something may come out of it.
I guess hard to say 18-30 is age range when as an organiser one is much older. Obviously there are some younger guys out there and younger guys who like to wrestle in a mixed age range. I have wrestled as young as 17yo but as you say not very common. Most young guys are very wary. I know a guy who is 22 he has had the experience of meeting only a couple of men but they have always wanted to pressure the sex side even when he has made it clear from the start that he was not interested. As a result he is even warier of group events!
Maybe this fear is not general but it might explain some of the problem.
O.k,..Reluctancy of youth 2. IF i organise an age restricted event 18-30.with the following categories,submission,nhb wrestling,mma,gutpunching would you take part and help with the organising of the event?. The event would be in London and would require a minimum number of 8 to take part (strictly gay/bi) in one of the London matrooms.
point 2 in answer to travelstud's and retiarius's point,I stand corrected that i am allowed to discriminate, but have chosen not to in any event i have organised so far on the grounds that to engage as many participants to take part in these events, i felt this would be an unwise decision.
Last point there is no cut off point in profesional mma with some still fighting in there 50's and passing medicals with ease.
Even professional MMA and submission wrestling events have age-categories / divisions. This is a physical activity - you are allowed to discriminate - its not really discrimination though. And I think the cut off age in professional MMA events is 40 - or 42.
Takes a few years of wrestling before you start going to such events. Say you go to an event after 5 years of experience. This means that if you start at 25, and go to your first events at age 30. In turn, if you go to an event at age 18 with 5 years of experience, that means you must have started at age 13 (??).
Hi Andy. Do a search for wrestlers between age 18 and 25 and you'll see there aren't that many. If you look at their last log in date this will give you an idea of how interested they are then deduct whatever percentage to allow for timewasters. there aren't hat many really m8.
Where are all the younger wrestlers/boxers/fighters/gutpunchers,
hiding when it comes to participating in events.
It has been brought to my attention that any events that i or others try to arrange that we never seem to be able atract the younger element.
If anyone can help with this i am open to suggestions as to how to atract them.
we cannot by law just run an event for the younger guys as this would be classified as age discrimination but i for one would really like to have some younger guy's taking part in the events that i put on.
Help us out guy's by telling us why you dont participate or what sort of event you would take part in please. hardandy312
iainscott 8 (45)
10/1/2010 20:36Hi,
Following on from the discussions here and elsewhere in relation to younger people and wrestling; I'd like to announce the first session of wrestling and coaching aimed at the younger element. The 'younger element' are guys defined as being under 35. Arbitrary? Of course but you have to draw the line somewhere - though I suppose if you were 36 and had a great body the younger guys would not object!!!
As already announced on the SPEEDO-WRESTLERS website the first meeting date will be 12 till 3PM SATURDAY, JANUARY 16th. Coaching will be at the basic, beginner level onwards and the be based developing skills in both pinfall and submission wrestling.
There is a cost for this monthly coaching and wrestling and it is only £10 per session.
As time goes on and the numbers attending increase in size then we'll make the sessions fortnightly and then weekly. However this really depends on the younger element grabbing hold of this new wrestling club meeting and running with it.
There is no expectation of participants wearing speedos as I'm given to believe that the younger guys don't like that but prefer to wear taliban shorts instead. Whatever! It does not matter as it is more important that guys turn up than what they wear. So wear whatever gear you feel makes you more comfortable but just give your initial, at least, support to this and we'll see how it goes.
On the same evening from 7 till 10PM there is a Nudist Wrestling & Coaching Meeting but that is not related to the previous session and is totally separate.
Iain
jockwrestler (0)
19/11/2009 20:31To my horror its just dawned on me that I'm now in the "older" age bracket! - but that aside having wrestled since I was 17 on and off there are a couple of things that I feel got in the way.
I was never put off by wrestling with "older blokes" many of whom I found great company and cracking wrestlers & shags but I had to fancy them for the sex. The general feeling I had when meeting someone was that sex was taken for granted and it was the wrestling style that was up for negotiation.
A group of 20 years olds in the room together isn't going to click and have an enjoyable session just because they are younger.
It is daunting to strip off with a guy within 2 minutes of meeting them and even more so with a group who all seem to know each other.
When you arrange to meet up with a bloke for the first time being honest is the key - if the more experienced bloke just wants to show off his 30+ years of training the match ends up one one sided and I used to find it dull, painful and demoralising.
So to answer the original post - be clear what you are after and what you expect, and do the totally un-gay and un-London thing of dropping a message after the bout to say thank you. Perhaps the odd "introduction session" with a couple of sensible friendly blokes who can give a safe demonstration/ introduction may work?
Anyway after 18 months off with a back injury I'm probably a newbie again myself!
iainscott 8 (45)
08/11/2009 18:55I know we always had a 'house rule' that it was speedos that the wrestlers should wear. However this has been relaxed for a little while now and you are free to wear whatever you want including singlets.
To be honest it is much more important that guys turn up than that we worry about what they wear. I always do the coaching with myself in speedos or brief swimtrunks anyway regardless. That is just me and my particular gear fetish though!!!
So just come along with whatever gear you want to wear. The matroom area is very warm with our heaters running so you might find the gear usually worn in mainstream martial arts clubs - the sweatpants and hoodie tracksuits covering oversized taliban shorts a bit uncomfortable.
Iain
BikerE1W (5)
29/10/2009 18:53as a new member, it is nice to see that this kind of thought is going into the site... I know of Iain's set up and it looks good.. if you want to wrestle in speedos... I prefer singlets as am fussy about wrestling sweaty people I may not be attracted too.. but that's just me I guess... Last I heard Iain was putting in showers, and ideally all wrestlers should shower before and after matches. I have a garage converted into a mat room, and hope to find guys to wrestle here in central London by Tower bridge..
flexiwrestler (40)
25/10/2009 22:57Hey, As a youngish wrestler(30) now, but have been since I was 19, I have to say that economics and apprehension are the real reasons why. Economics being that travelling around to meet in hotels and places not necessarily close by / etc is not cheap as I did this for some time in the past so going to Iain's place is the perfect opportunity for many young wrestlers..and I highly recommend Iain's coaching techniques and encouragament. I think personally that the uncertainty over sexual overtones is what causes the most problem....if you get a group of young wrestlers who are all comfortable and sexually charged then great...that rarely happens..and many are put off by older guys who they feel..sex is expected and you cant just wrestle. On this front, younger guys have to be a bit more assertive and if they aren't interested..then say so...rather than perhaps never going again/and realising a good wrestle can occur without the expected sex afterwards if not desired......fortunately for me i like older fit muscled wrestlers..and with no age barrier really as long as in shape..but I think that's the nub of the reason why...young guys also perhaps are still sorting out their sexuality...in early 20's etc and not certain of their own feelings, so in your face gay advances are not always welcome....and I know how some older guys dont sometimes know how to say..ok..and move on..so it needs commnication from both sides...being open and honest.
Xaos (21)
23/10/2009 20:31dirtyfighters point about the make up of sites like this holds true though. Out of curiosity I ran a search against 18-30 vs 31+ and at first glance there looks to be around nearing 10x as many members over 30. Now you could always narrow those search fields over but using the groupings discussed on here thats big difference. Another thing which would be interesting to me and maybe some of you would to see what the styles of grappling these groups are primarily interested in. This is an interesting thread guys, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
iainscott 8 (45)
21/10/2009 17:51We have a huge number of younger guys who have subscribed to the SPEEDO-WRESTLERS website ...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/speedo-wrestlers/
... however getting them to participate in group events has always been difficult.
The age group attending our sessions is around the 40+ mark. Yesterday I was 54 and celebrated it by doing a club wrestling session (I'm a bit of an obsessive when it comes to wrestling). The oldest guy there was 57 and I think the youngest was late 30's.
It may well be that it takes younger gay guys longer to grow up and have enough focus to join gay fighting clubs. They all seem to be on the commercial scene getting plastered on drugs and alcohol.
We have had group coaching and wrestling sessions where younger guys have attended. They all tend to want sex at the end of it though. While this does happen it only happens occasionally depending on the personal dynamics at each session.
The last time we had a large number of young guys attending the session ended in a total orgy - but only after the older guys had left. To be honest though, most of our weekly sessions are totally sex-less other than the feel of the general eroticism of the wrestling itself.
I have tried to set up a training session just for younger guys in order for them to train and wrestle among their peers. The take up was zero in the end so I abandoned the idea. However I am individually coaching a fair number of younger guys and they tell me that they are occasionally meeting guys from the various wrestling websites.
Younger guys getting into grappling or just martial arts are probably starting with the mainstream 'straight' fighting clubs where they will for the most part get excellent coaching. They then usually start making contacts in the gay undeground fighting community if they don't make them in their mainstream club.
However, for guys who want to wrestle in a totally gay/bi environment we are building a terrific wrestling club here in London. To be perfectly frank if new guys are coming into gay wrestling then they really should make a beeline straight to SPEEDO-WRESTLERS.
There are no other gay/bi based wrestling clubs in London which provide the kind of coaching we do and the quality matspace either. It is also for free so students on a budget only need to pay travel costs.
Iain
StrikeFighter (77 )
13/10/2009 9:06Another very simple point that hasn't been made here yet is that most younger guys have much less money to spend on 'frivolous' trips to wrestling events. You have to consider that the extra cost involved for those who don't live close to the event (travel, accommodation) could be prohibitive for potential younger participants. So the fact that more younger people don't participate might only partly have to do with their perceived reluctance. I think a lot of it has to do with simple economics, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
Two suggestions: organise events in big population centres (London probably being one of the best choices) and try to keep the event limited to one day only so people only have to stay overnight once, or not at all. You might also consider checking the calendar for university holidays!
scotsgrappler (117)
12/10/2009 21:32"Age discrimination", if it really is that rather than just a person exercising a personal preference, can be justified on various grounds, not least in sport and when socialising. I suspect many younger grapplers just take longer to get into this or are content finding their milieu. We probably all think "jings, I wish I had started grappling sooner" but you can only walk so far in another man's shoes..he needs to take those first steps himself. I actually find some younger men enjoy going up against a sane,older, more experienced opponent. For the others, live and let live. Though, for the prima donnas, I'm reminded that "just cos you're young, don't mean your gorgeous" -).
fighterboy (0)
11/10/2009 15:27I would love to take part in an event but am really short of time so would not be able to help organise it. I'm 27 and am fairly new to the fighting scene so would love some experience fighting guys my own age before moving onto other age groups too.
hardandy312 (44)
11/10/2009 15:09Hence the reason for asking a younger guy to help with the organising of such an event The whole reason for starting this article was that a couple of the younger fighters had expressed an interest in coming along to one of the events but would have preferred an event that was for there age only. At that point i was still unsure if that comes under age dicrimination but when i suggested to them that they should have a go at organising there own event then i was met by some reluctancy to do so. If the guys want to have stake matches that is entirely up to themselves to make it in their rules of engagement. If someone does not wish stakes included then their wish should be respected at all times. Please keep the comments coming guy's and hopefully something may come out of it.
UKrenegade (86)
11/10/2009 12:34I guess hard to say 18-30 is age range when as an organiser one is much older. Obviously there are some younger guys out there and younger guys who like to wrestle in a mixed age range. I have wrestled as young as 17yo but as you say not very common. Most young guys are very wary. I know a guy who is 22 he has had the experience of meeting only a couple of men but they have always wanted to pressure the sex side even when he has made it clear from the start that he was not interested. As a result he is even warier of group events!
Maybe this fear is not general but it might explain some of the problem.
hardandy312 (44)
11/10/2009 11:13O.k,..Reluctancy of youth 2. IF i organise an age restricted event 18-30.with the following categories,submission,nhb wrestling,mma,gutpunching would you take part and help with the organising of the event?. The event would be in London and would require a minimum number of 8 to take part (strictly gay/bi) in one of the London matrooms.
point 2 in answer to travelstud's and retiarius's point,I stand corrected that i am allowed to discriminate, but have chosen not to in any event i have organised so far on the grounds that to engage as many participants to take part in these events, i felt this would be an unwise decision.
Last point there is no cut off point in profesional mma with some still fighting in there 50's and passing medicals with ease.
travelstud (0)
10/10/2009 14:08Even professional MMA and submission wrestling events have age-categories / divisions. This is a physical activity - you are allowed to discriminate - its not really discrimination though. And I think the cut off age in professional MMA events is 40 - or 42.
Retiarius (11)
09/10/2009 18:20You are allowed to discreminate by age for physical events as this is done in martial arts and by holiday companies involving physical activities..
SileX (207 )
06/10/2009 7:42I think a few things contribute to this:
Tynesider (84)
05/10/2009 6:26Hi Andy. Do a search for wrestlers between age 18 and 25 and you'll see there aren't that many. If you look at their last log in date this will give you an idea of how interested they are then deduct whatever percentage to allow for timewasters. there aren't hat many really m8.
hardandy312 (44)
05/10/2009 2:05Where are all the younger wrestlers/boxers/fighters/gutpunchers,
hiding when it comes to participating in events.
It has been brought to my attention that any events that i or others try to arrange that we never seem to be able atract the younger element.
If anyone can help with this i am open to suggestions as to how to atract them.
we cannot by law just run an event for the younger guys as this would be classified as age discrimination but i for one would really like to have some younger guy's taking part in the events that i put on.
Help us out guy's by telling us why you dont participate or what sort of event you would take part in please. hardandy312